Ragtag the 3rd

Thursday, April 28, 2005

What people in Egypt want, and what they should get.

Today at my university I overheared a bunch of guys talking about politics. I've known the guys from before, and they wheren't religious extremist or anything so I thought i'd join in. This is how it went:

guy A:" You know, the reason the arab world is so backward is because we as muslims have lost our way." (huh?)

guy B: "That's right. Once we muslims turn back to our religion, we'll become the greatest nation, just like we where at the time of the Khilafa. (The Khalifat Muslim empire of the middle ages.)"

Me : "Could you please explain that last part to me, how in the world is we becoming better muslims and more devout going to bring growth (let alone greatness) to our country?"

guy A : "Islam is the solution my brother"

Me : "I got that part already, but how??"

guy B : "The solution to all our problems is in an Islamic government, one that rule s in the name of God and his prophet"

Me : "What is the structure of this government, how is it supposed to function?"

guy A: "Structure, what structure? We want a government based on Khilafa and Sharia. Like the one that we had at the time of the great Islamic empire."

Me : "But that was a middle age Empire, the world has changed since?"

guy A : "No, no, Its fit for all times and all ages." (oh dear!)

Me : "ehm, OK"

guy B :"What do you think?"

Me : "Well,i think the only way we as Arabs could advance is through decent democratic governing. A competetive multiparty system, where we could vote the type of government we think would work into power."

guy A : "You mean a secular government?"

Me : "I'm not talking about the government, i'm talking about the framework, the constitution."

guy B : "But where is Islam, in what you are saying?"

Me : "You could vote an Islamic party into power if you wanted?"

guy A " This is not the Islamic government we had in mind, it seem like a western secular government with seperation of islam and state to me."

Me : "That's not what I said."

guy B : " No, Islam is the solution." (oh brother)

Me : "So what you're saying is that you wan't a government like Iran. A theocracy where the ruler as a representative of God, and where disagreeing with him is heresy."

guy A : "No, not like Iran, Iran is shiite."(!!!!!)

Me : "Great talking to you guys, sorry, got to go, bye."

I had to leave because obviously both had simply no idea what they where talking about. That is why I rarely ever talk about politics. Many people here in egypt are as deluded. They tend to confuse politics with religion, and you end up not knowing what you where talking about in the first place.

I have to ask this though. What led to this wide spread ignorance of basic politics in our society?

continued....

5 Comments:

  • Well brother i read the posts and i felt i should comment on this one . Even though i dont consider myself as a good muslim , but i have the islamic creed fine and the other ideologies i read about .I guess the guys know what they want but you misintrepreted them or they misexpressed their thoughts . When we say we want islamic or a muslim government this doesnt mean we want holy leader who cant be opposed . Thats not true at all . Each government has its own ideology , the US and other " democratic governments " which i dont beleive they are according to their beleifs , but those governments have an ideology . That ideology is secularism . Its putting religion aside and believing in human power as it is the super power and the solution for all human problems . I have alot to say but first i would start with the idea of, to whom shall we listen and abide ? Some say to human brain free from any boundaries , others say to the creator of that brain . So lets start from here and talk about this first . And first of all is there God or not ? Shall we go into this also or no need cause we can go as far as it takes man and i am waiting for your comment to see how the flow of thoughts would be .

    See you ...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 28 April, 2005 16:46  

  • You got me all wrong. What I meant to say was that people are calling for an islamic type government without actually knowing what an islamic government is.

    What i'm calling for, is a multiparty government system, where every party has the right to representation and the people get to pick the form of government they'd prefer through voting.

    If they wanted they could vote an islamic government into power, however whatever government is voted into power must be accountable to the people. Meaning that it can be as easily voted out of government if it looses the people's trust.

    By Blogger ragtag_the_3rd, at 28 April, 2005 17:05  

  • Well brother i did understand what you meant . But if some people dont understand what an islamic State or khilafah is then this doesnt mean we should call for a multiparty government . So first we should know what we want then work for it . You said you want multiparty government , you should tell my why you are asking this kind of government . I do appreciate alot that you want to change the dictatorship rule in all arab countries but is the multiparty a solution or is it the only solution and from where have you got the idea ? And why havent you called for an islamic one for example ? I would reply again to you after getting your feedback .
    salam.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 01 May, 2005 04:00  

  • To be frank with you there is no such term as a multiparty government. In reality, the party with most votes gets to the government, provided there is a legitimated democratic constitution. Sometimes when votes are indecisive coalition governments are formed.

    Back to the point, what Arab Liberals (me included) are calling for is a democratic constitution that could enable the people to pick whatever government they like. The constitution should also guarantee that if an elected governement has lost course, it can be as easily voted out of power, then a new elections could take place and a new government is voted in.

    I wouldn't call for an Islamic government because it simply means that whatever this government says would be rule and opposing it would be redeemed unilslamic (heresy). This would be simply taking out a dictatorship using military force with a dictatorship using absolute religion to keep people in line.

    Don't get me wrong, i'd vote for a party that upholds our religious values, but not one that claims to be an absolute religious authority.

    By Blogger ragtag_the_3rd, at 01 May, 2005 06:11  

  • Ragtag:

    I realize this post is old, but I had to comment. I am glad to see that such discussions are going on in Egypt. That is exactly what we need to do, talk things out, communicate to understand one another better.

    I hope you would push such discussions (and the one above) further, there is miscommunication on both parts. We are sick of the dictatorship we've been living, so we want a fair and free government and society.

    To some, that means Islamic, to others that means Democratic. I believe both are after the same goal of freedom and civil liberties, but are going about it in different ways.

    The aim would be to combine both opinions into one government/system, and hopefully reach a solution. Idealistic, but we have to keep hoping.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10 March, 2006 09:10  

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